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Antifreeze effects or aluminum radiators
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Source：Internet Author：Unknow Pubdate：2010-03-21
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Fmangas (Automotive)
3 Nov 09 8:09
I have been getting conflicting information from aluminum radiator suppliers. One supplier has told us that the use of non-aluminum compatible antifreeze will eat away the radiator in as little as a few days. Another supplier has told us the worse effect of non-compatible antifreeze is that it will turn to a sludge like substance.
Does anyone have any comments or thoughts
Thanks
Frank
RossABQ (Mechanical)
6 Nov 09 21:08
Are you talking about silica-free vs. non-SF antifreeze, or what? What do they claim is "compatible"? I can't think of any common antifreeze formulation that doesn't work with aluminum. Some are better than others with aluminum, like the hybrid organic (GO-5) blends but a couple of days? Come on. I have a 20-yr-old Chevy with aluminum radiator and it has been on plain old cheap ethylene glycol without any problems.
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patprimmer (Publican)
6 Nov 09 21:31
Ethylene glycol antifreeze should be OK. There are sometimes issues between the grade of aluminium in the engine and radiator and the corrosion inhibitors, but I think that has now been addressed by any reputable brand name coolant manufacturer.
If you use alcohol based antifreeze you WILL MOST CERTAINLY have a problem with aluminium components. Regards
Pat
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Fmangas (Automotive)
7 Nov 09 18:49
What we have been told is if we use the "green" antifreeze it will distroy the radiator in weeks. We have been told by another that if we use "green" antifreeze the worse that will happen is as it wears it will turn to sludge and plug the radiator. I tend to believe the second supplier from personal experience. I just wondered if anyone else had either of these experiences.
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ivymike (Mechanical)
7 Nov 09 19:22
well, "zerex original green antifreeze" claims to have excellent corrosion protection for aluminum. maybe you should call 'em up and ask if they're lying.
http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/antifreeze-radiator-products/antifreeze/40
ivymike (Mechanical)
7 Nov 09 19:25
here, this article ought to scare you:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/how_to_central/automotive/1272436.html
patprimmer (Publican)
7 Nov 09 19:45
I don't see how the colour of the dye they use has any impact on the corrosion inhibitors.
Like I implied earlier it must be glycol based and must have corrosion inhibitors suitable for your components. Different car and radiator manufacturers use different aluminium alloys and reputable coolant marketers nominate on the pack which car groups they are suitable for. Regards 字串9
Pat
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Fmangas (Automotive)
8 Nov 09 9:11
Thanks Ivymike
That gives me some good questions to go back to our suppliers with.
Pat
I think the crux of it is the primary supplier won't give us any specifications they just say don't use the green color.
I geuss my other question has anyone seen corrosion to the point of leakage in 2 to 3 weeks time? specifically attributed to antifreeze?
patprimmer (Publican)
8 Nov 09 17:59
I would take the word of any manufacturer who advises you against using his product. Regards
Pat
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Fmangas (Automotive)
8 Nov 09 18:31
Pat
Since there are a number of different compositions and manufacturers of green colored antifreeze. Don't you think it would be better for me to go back to the radiator manufacturer and ask what specific standard the antifreeze needs pass? Instead of accepting a blanket statement such as don't use green antifreeze
patprimmer (Publican)
8 Nov 09 21:06
I never said don't use green antifreeze. I never even implied that, especially if you check back on my previous posts.
I said follow the manufacturers advice.
If they say not to use something they make, don't use it, they rarely understate their capacity. As to their advice re their competitors products, treat anything they say as suspect.
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If ONE manufacture says don't use gree, don't use his green. The colour is simply a grade identifyer. Another manufacturer may use a different colour code system and his green one may be what is suitable for your car..
There is more to corrosion control than just the radiator. All components in contact with the water have an influence. Your biggest worry normally is dissimilar metals and galvanic corrosion.
Regards
Pat
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Fmangas (Automotive)
8 Nov 09 22:01
Pat
I apologize I didn't mean to offend. Perhaps if I stated the problem a little differently.
There are a number of different green, orange, red and other assorted antifreezes. Each one is formulated differently by there respective manufacturer. They are formulated to acheive various specifications such as SAE, GM, Ford,ect. 字串2
I have 2 radiator suppliers. One will supply me with there recommended specifications. One has only told me to not use green antifreeze. The latter one has a better price for radiators. The latter one also has stated if I use green antifreeze I will have radiator failure within 2 weeks.
I'm concerned that there may be antifreeze's in the world that are a different color then green but still have the same formulation. Since I ship these radiators worldwide. I want to minimize the failure risk of premature failure.
So,I guess my question is it common for automotive style aluminum radiators to disintegrate in as little as 2 weeks from improper antifreeze?
patprimmer (Publican)
8 Nov 09 22:12
I have been running Castrol or Valvoline or ICI in the day green coloured antifreeze in my aluminium radiators for over 30 years. I never ever had one fail from internal corrosion or blockage in that time. I always choose the grade that the manufacturer recomends. 字串8
Some years ago there were different recommendations for Japanese cars than US or European or Australian made cars, however the Japanese or non Japanese grades were both green. I now use Castrol or Valvoline green antifreeze that is recomended for any car with aluminium heads and radiator. I have been doing that for at least 2 years with no problem.
I was not offended. I was and still am a bit iritated. I normaly speak plainly and mean exactly what I say and expect others to hear exactly what I say. I hope this post is crystal clear as to what I mean. I cannot think of a more detailed or simplistic way to say it. Regards
Pat
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MikeHalloran (Mechanical)
8 Nov 09 22:46
I've never had a radiator fail in three weeks.
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I wouldn't want to resell one that would, even with the 'wrong' antifreeze.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
waross (Electrical)
9 Nov 09 3:13
What Mike said!! Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
IRstuff (Aerospace)
9 Nov 09 10:17
Seems like the question should be, "Why are your radiators so wimpy? There are tons of aluminum parts that contact coolant for hundreds of thousands of miles with not a whit of corrosion, and your radiators can't even last 3 weeks? Time for a new supplier!!" TTFN
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Metalguy (Materials)
28 Dec 09 15:42
Here's the simplified story. Silicates (usually found in the green stuff) are very protective for alum., as long as they last. It was feared they didn't last too long, but I understand there is recent research that says they last longer than previously thought. But they are not "long life". 字串3
HOWEVER, the Japanese manufacturers hate silicates, feeling they are too abrasive and chew up water pump seals-even hard ceramic seals. They like phosphates, which are good for alum. but not as good as silicates.
HOWEVER, the Europeans hate phosphates, because they know that many/most people use plain tap water instead of distilled. OK, no big problem in most of Japan and the US because we have relatively "soft" water, but most of Europe has ~equal parts of water, calcium and magnesium pouring out of the taps--read HARD water. Seems that phosphates cause the Ca and Mg to turn to tiny rocks--not too good.
What to do? I use distilled water in everything, buy cheap green stuff for use in my American engines, and $$$$26/gal "Toyota Red" high phosphate in my bikes and all 3 Toyotas--2 turbo Supras and a supercharged MR2. "You see, wire telegraph is like a very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? Radio operates the same way: You send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is there is no cat." A. Einstein
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